Reflections and premonitions: Dudaev’s “ghost” interview

31 marzo 2023 maceriadmin 1 commento

This interview, made in April 1995 and published by Kommersant on September 1, 1998, has an unusual story. The tape with the recording of the conversation disappeared under strange circumstances, leaving only its transcript. To remove doubts about the authenticity of the interview, Kommersant questioned the journalist who carried it out, the famous ITAR – TASS reporter Sherip Asuev.

Here is what Sharip Asuev recalls: “It was three years ago, in the spring. It was very difficult for me to get to Dudayev. His base was in the mountains, near Shatoi, in an old stable. I was accompanied by his associates, especially Daud Akhmadov. We talked almost until the morning … Then for two days I could not leave. Then they took me to another road. A few months later I was persuaded to give the cassette of the journalist of Komsomolskaya Pravda Alexander Yevtushenko, I agreed, because I knew it would never go through the TASS channels. All night I deciphered the tape. The next morning Sasha left. I return in the evening. Some people in camouflage took away his car, with all its contents… ”

Yevtushenko confirmed that he had received the tape, and that his car was confiscated, which was destroyed a few weeks later at a federal troop checkpoint, hit directly by a tank shell. “Even if the tape had still been in the car” he replied “there would have been nothing left of it after the bombing…”

Daud Akhmadov also confirmed Sherip’s version, declaring that he was present while Dudayev was giving the interview, and that he worked to get people to pass by a different road than the one by which he had come, because the first one in the meantime had been bombed .

Dudaev tiene una conferenza stampa dopo lo scoppio delle ostilità

Below is the translation of the interview:

Shatoi, April 1995

Dzhokhar, on the eve of the entry of Russian troops into Chechnya, did you personally feel this danger? Did you expect this development of events? After all, there was a giant tragedy of the people.

“This is a tragedy not only of the Chechen people. There has been a tragedy for Russia and the Russian people.”

I mean Grozny destroyed, the villages executed, thousands of widows and orphans. Did you foresee something like this happening?

“I’ve always said that Russia is dying and needs victims.”

Many today (April 1995.-Kommersant) say about you that you were specially trained and sent to destroy her people.

“It’s all bullshit. Bullshit, which I despise and do not perceive. I know exactly how these lies are formed. This is propaganda.”

They also talk about the fabulous money you get from selling oil, drugs…

“Bluff and talk. I don’t even want to comment.”

How do you see the future of Chechnya today?

“Well.”

What do you think will happen to Russia next?

If the Russians knew what fate they were preparing – not only for their descendants, but also for the current generation – they would probably have incurable diarrhea. Russia has two ways of developing. And both are stupid.

So?

What is the path to Russia? Take the dollar and make it your god. They are ready for it right now. What will come of it? This is self-destruction, a destructive path. You can go another way – I know which way Russia needs. But I will never tell. Let them fall and roll! One way is to accept Islam and follow the way of Islam. This is a more realistic way for them.

Daud Akhmadov parla ad una conferenza stampa.

And could not our people with you be victims of all these global processes?

“Today it is the victim of these problems.”

Victory or defeat, how will this war end?

“Questions about the start of the war and its completion are the Almighty’s business. So far, Russia itself is not prepared either for war or for its logical conclusion. But it’s not the war that worries me now, it will end anyway . And we will sign the peace. Not in Moscow – I will never go, and not in Chechnya – I have to let Russia save face. This (the signing of the peace. – Kommersant) will take place in the Caucasian land, in Dagestan. Do you want me to tell you where? In a train carriage…”

Dzhokhar, don’t you feel guilty that everything turned out like this in Chechnya?

“I don’t feel guilty.”

Couldn’t we have avoided this nightmare of war?

“We could not. If we tried to solve (the problem of relations with Russia. – Kommersant) by peaceful means, by politics, by loyalty, by humility – I can assure you that we would be destroyed to the root. And there would never again be a Chechen nation or its state. And I can responsibly say that already in 1991, the idea arose to populate the disputed territories on the Sino-Soviet border, under the branding that the Chechen mafia, rackets will not let you live. In 1991, how many Were there locomotives in Gudermes? With the excuse of maintenance? On which the factory grease had not yet been removed!? There were 56 locomotives! And how many wagons stood at the railway junctions around and on the territory of the republic? Cattle wagons. And without any movement for more than three months?! How many covered vehicles, under the guise of collection were in 11 districts, standing motionless, with people in green jackets?! Each car has an officer. And from how many units were additionally unloaded military equipment and the military contingent arrived on the territory of the republic to those who were already here?! And the Chechen nation would be destroyed. And the Emergency Committee was supposed to implement the idea of the genocide, another deportation of the Chechen people. And only an accident thwarted these plans.”

There is an idea that if Dudayev left now, saying: “If you want elections, hold them, if you want, join Russia”! Many more lives could be saved. Why do not you do that?

“I testify before Allah that such an act would bring great harm to the people. 300,000 men – aged between 17 and 50 – now have no shelter, no food, no work. They have nowhere to go – families are being destroyed, houses are being destroyed. These people have only one goal: revenge. As long as they trust me they obey me. If the landmark is broken, they will go out of control… Terrible! An internecine war will begin. In distant Russia, who should take revenge? Here we will seek blood revenge. They will again call for help from the Russians. And the latter, not understanding where theirs is, where they are strangers, will raze everything to the ground.”

Would you like to talk to Yeltsin now?

“I always have something to say to the leadership of Russia. I have always understood perfectly well, and I understand now, that such a huge Russia has its own interests, which are difficult to give up in an hour, in an instant. At first I suggested to take into account the interests of Russia: joint defense, joint armed forces. I even called him. I said more than once: recognize the path chosen by my people, and I will leave the political arena in 3 days.”

Dudaev vota alle elezioni popolari del 27 Ottobre 1991

Dzhokhar, how do you evaluate today’s events, as a result of which you came to power in the presidential elections on October 27, 1991?

“The Supreme is my witness that I did not want to present my candidacy for president. But then my supporters were indignant because, they said I was afraid.”

Who were these people who convened the first national congress of the Chechen people (November 23-25, 1990), at which an executive committee was created (September 6, 1991, the Executive Committee of the Chechen People’s Congress seized power in the republic – Kommersant)? What do you think now, did they really support the idea or did they use the name of the first Chechen general to achieve their goals?

“That’s all! When I saw to whom the Vainakh people’s congress entrusted its sovereignty and its future, I – I give you my word of honor – got goosebumps. Already at the very first meeting of the executive committee there, they – those who organized and held this congress – started a fight for money.Literally because of the money raised for the last congress.

I didn’t need places in this republic, in that environment, spoiled to the point of lawlessness. In general, I was not only afraid of this environment but, frankly, I despised it. This environment was so far from my intellect and level with all its luxury, bravado and behind-the-scenes games. This environment was wild and far away for me… I looked and shuddered in horror. Who was given the trust of the people! It became clear that it was a collapse. That things would turn out so differently from the direction people had imagined. That they would literally pervert this idea (of sovereignty-Kommersant), they would smear it, they would spit on it. And that the people would be reduced to nothing. This is what made me take on this heavy burden. But it’s one thing to pronounce high-sounding words from the stands, quite another when it is necessary to implement a decision.”

Dudaev in abiti civili durante il periodo prebellico

They say your inner circle was corrupt.

“Everyone was corrupt. In the old days, money was brought to the first people in the highest echelons of power in the republic, and there was a certain tax. It took some time to clear the upper echelon. A cabinet of ministers was replaced , the second cabinet, the third. And we passed the upper level, we succeeded. And those who planned it, they felt the sword of Damocles upon them, which would cut off their heads. But on the lower level, the corruption continued to exist with unbridled force.

If you started all over again, what would you change about your actions in the last few years (1991-1996 – Kommersant)?

“Even if I wanted to change something, they just wouldn’t let me. Of course, I wish I had done things very differently.”

Who didn’t allow it?

The context didn’t allow it, a society that wasn’t ripe for democracy and respect for rules and laws. Do you think I wouldn’t want to have talented, intelligent, intellectual, creative, dedicated people next to me?! But there were little bastards around who had only one interest: unbridled profit. The environment turned out to be like this due to the circumstances, there was no other.”

Ieri Bamut, oggi Bakhmut. Indietro al 1995, un’altra fortezza che non si arrese ai russi

13 marzo 2023 maceriadmin Lascia un commento

L’assonanza è soltanto fonetica, ma il significato storico è impressionante, se si considera che la Bamut del 1995, così come la Bakhmut del 2023, segnò l’arresto di una avanzata che sembrava inarrestabile, imbarazzò l’esercito russo di fronte al mondo e ispirò tutta la nazione (cecena allora, ucraina oggi) a resistere all’invasione. Quello che segue è un estratto dal secondo volume di “Libertà o Morte! Storia della Repubblica Cecena di Ichkeria”.

Bamut

Mentre il Gruppo di Combattimento Sever prendeva Argun, Gudermes e Shali e respingeva i dudaeviti verso il ridotto montano, ad Ovest ilGruppo di Combattimento Jug avanzava verso gli obiettivi designati. Di fronte aveva i reparti ceceni organizzati nel Fronte di Bamut, un’unità composita ma combattiva al comando di Ruslan Khaikhoroev. Il reparto era inizialmente composto da circa 200 volontari, ma per la fine di marzo, con l’arrivo del Reggimento Galachozh al comando di Khizir Khachukayev, si era già ingrossato giungendo a toccare i quattrocento miliziani. Alla metà di marzo 1995 ancora nessuno degli obiettivi prefissati per il Gruppo Jug era stato raggiunto, malgrado l’artiglieria avesse martellato quasi tutte le cittadine al fronte. La posizione cecena era favorevole, ancorché defilata rispetto alla linea principale delle operazioni. Il villaggio di Bamut, infatti, giaceva all’imbocco di una stretta gola, sovrastata ad est e ad ovest da ripide alture boscose. Ad occidente le posizioni cecene confinavano con l’Inguscezia, paese relativamente “amico”, dove gli indipendentisti potevano trovare supporto materiale ed umano. A poca distanza dal villaggio poi, su un’altura denominata “444.4” e chiamata dagli abitanti locali “Monte Calvo”, si trovava una base missilistica sovietica, in grado di resistere efficacemente sia ai bombardamenti di artiglieria che a quelli dell’aeronautica. I ceceni l’avevano occupata, trincerandola ulteriormente. In quest’area erano affluiti tutti gli equipaggiamenti pesanti a disposizione del Fronte Occidentale, oltre ad un discreto arsenale di mine antiuomo ed anticarro che Kachukhaev aveva fatto sistemare all’imbocco dell’unica strada carrabile verso la base, proveniente da Assinovskaya e diretta a Bamut. Il

18 Aprile i russi tentarono di prendere il villaggio. Una brigata si affacciò sull’abitato all’alba, ma finì ben presto sotto il tiro delle armi pesanti cecene. Nel tentativo di manovrare, i russi finirono dapprima in un campo minato, poi tra le strade del villaggio, anch’esse minate con ordigni antiuomo. Numerosi veicoli blindati ed alcuni carri da battaglia rimasero distrutti. Una volta impantanata tra le rovine, la brigata si trovò sotto il tiro dei cecchini, che falcidiarono la fanteria. Al termine dell’azione, conclusasi con il ritiro dei federali, si contarono decine tra morti e feriti. Un tentativo di alleggerimento della pressione, operato da un distaccamento delle forze speciali, finì in un fiasco, con la morte di 10 “Spetnatz” ed il ferimento di altri 17. L’esercito federale dovette così organizzare un metodico assedio delle posizioni cecene, impiegando il grosso delle forze a disposizione.

La mappa mostra l’offensiva russa in Cecenia tra il Marzo ed il Giugno 1995. A sinistra si può notare la fortezza di Bamut, che resisté alle offensive russe e rimase sotto assedio per più di un anno, fino al 24 Maggio 1996

Dopo aver schierato le truppe in assetto di battaglia, il 24 marzo Babichev riuscì a penetrare ad Achkhoy – Martan, occupandola per breve tempo prima che un contrattacco ceceno costringesse i russi a ripiegare. Il 7 aprile l’intero fronte occidentale venne investito da una violenta offensiva. Quel giorno vennero attaccate contemporaneamente
Samashki, Davydenko, Achkhoy Martan, Novy Sharoy e Bamut. L’offensiva produsse la conquista di Samashki, Davydenko e Novy Sharoy, le roccaforti più esterne, al costo di centinaia tra morti e feriti. Scontri particolarmente violenti si registrarono nei dintorni di Samashki,
dove i reparti di Mosca vennero investiti da una violenta controffensiva cecena e lasciarono sul campo una settantina di uomini. Nonostante la fiera resistenza dei militanti la preponderanza di uomini e mezzi a vantaggio dei russi era tale che la difesa della posizione non avrebbe mai
potuto produrre una controffensiva. Kachukhaev si organizzò quindi per una resistenza ad oltranza, richiamando tutti i combattenti che non avevano fatto in tempo a raggiungere il ridotto montano, o che operavano ancora in pianura. La maggior parte delle unità che giunse a portare soccorso erano milizie volontarie non inquadrate, mal coordinate tra loro, molte delle quali tentarono di raggiungere gli assediati attraverso la strada di collegamento tra Starye Achkhoy e Achkhoy – Martan, finendo intercettate dalle avanguardie russe. Altri gruppi, provenienti dal villaggio inguscio di Arshty, furono intercettati dall’aeronautica federale e dispersi. I rinforzi che riuscirono a raggiungere Bamut furono quelli che, faticosamente, si fecero largo tra le montagne passando da Sud, raggiungendo il fiume Martanka dietro Bamut e risalendolo fino alle posizioni dei difensori.

I ritardi nel concentramento dei reparti fecero sì che le unità che effettivamente raggiunsero Bamut fossero in numero grandemente inferiore alle aspettative, nonché esauste per la lunga marcia a piedi. Molti miliziani ebbero appena un paio di giorni per recuperare le forze in attesa del grande scontro. Man mano che i reparti raggiungevano la base, Kachukhaev schierava le unità lungo il perimetro difensivo sulla base della loro grandezza e della supposta capacità operativa. In tutto furono
schierate sulla linea del fronte dalle 100 alle 300 unità, cui si aggiunsero
nei giorni successivi alcune decine di volontari provenienti dall’Inguscezia, inquadrati nel cosiddetto Battaglione Inguscio. La linea difensiva correva lungo i resti del centro abitato, addossata agli edifici e organizzata in un mosaico di piccole trincee a zig zag, in ordine a contrastare le unità russe avanzanti senza offrire bersagli estesi all’artiglieria. Dietro la prima linea di trincee ne era stata scavata una seconda, così che le unità combattenti potessero agilmente cambiare posizione ed alleggerire la pressione, per poi rioccupare le posizioni avanzate alla fine dei bombardamenti d’artiglieria. Le vie d’accesso erano bloccate dai detriti delle abitazioni distrutte, ed il materiale di risulta era stato impiegato per costruire piccoli guadi attraverso i quali le unità combattenti avrebbero potuto attraversare agevolmente il Martanka, per sottarsi a combattimenti troppo pesanti o per effettuare manovre di aggiramento sulle colonne corazzate federali.

Soldati russi avanzano verso le posizioni cecene

Le truppe russe si posizionarono a circa un chilometro e mezzo da quelle cecene, a una distanza sufficiente da evitare di essere bersagliate dagli RPG, ed iniziarono a bombardare la linea di difesa di Bamut. La linea russa correva ora lungo l’argine settentrionale di un canale che, da ovest, disegnava un semicerchio a nord di Bamut per gettarsi nel fiume, che correva sul fianco orientale del villaggio. Da lì l’artiglieria iniziò a martellare la prima linea cecena. I difensori si ritirarono, lasciando ai russi soltanto una serie di trincee vuote da bombardare, ed al termine del martellamento tornarono ad occupare le posizioni avanzate. I federali, convinti di aver piegato la resistenza cecena, iniziarono a muovere in avanti: una colonna si diresse verso il villaggio attraverso la strada principale, la quale corre parallela al Martanka. Questa azione avrebbe dovuto attirare il grosso dei nemici, mentre una seconda colonna avanzava da Nordovest, varcando il canale e dirigendo direttamente verso il centro del villaggio. I ceceni tuttavia avevano fiutato la trappola, e pur mantenendo una fiera difesa della via principale
lungo il Martanka, non sguarnirono le posizioni Nordoccidentali. Conscio della natura del suo piccolo esercito, costituito più come un arcipelago di piccole unità autonome che come una forza unitaria, Kachukhaev lasciò ai comandanti locali l’onere di organizzare autonomamente la loro strategia, mantenendo come unico imperativo quello di non spostarsi dal proprio settore senza autorizzazione. Questo fece sì che i russi non riuscissero a capire quante e quali unità avessero davanti, e non avessero un’idea chiara di quale fosse il fronte della battaglia. Decine di piccoli scontri locali si accesero lungo tutta la linea di difesa, incendiando l’intero settore per tutto il primo giorno di battaglia. Le unità indipendentiste, dotate di grande mobilità, colpivano con gli RPG i veicoli blindati, li assaltavano e cambiavano immediatamente posizione, impedendo ai russi di tracciarle e di annichilirle con l’artiglieria. In questo modo i reparti che difendevano il fianco sinistro dello schieramento ceceno furono in grado di accerchiare i russi avanzanti, provocando loro gravi perdite e costringendo la colonna federale prima ad arrestarsi, poi a fare marcia indietro.

Combattenti ceceni del Battaglione Galanchozh a difesa di Bamut

Anche il fronte orientale riuscì a fermare l’attacco russo. Allorchè la pressione dei federali si fece troppo forte, Kachukhaev ordinò alle prime linee di minare le trincee e di ritirarsi sulla seconda linea. Non appena le truppe russe ebbero preso il controllo, Kachukhaev ordinò che fossero fatte brillare, uccidendo coloro che le occupavano. Persa la maggior parte delle unità di fanteria, i corazzati russi non avrebbero potuto avanzare da soli, o sarebbero finiti sotto una pioggia di RPG. Così gli attaccanti decisero di ritirarsi, vanificando i progressi ottenuti a caro prezzo in quella prima giornata di battaglia. L’artiglieria federale ora conosceva le coordinate della seconda linea difensiva cecena, ed iniziò a bombardarla, ma ancora una volta senza successo: i reparti ceceni, infatti, utilizzarono i guadi approntati nei giorni precedenti per disperdersi tra le colline intorno a Bamut, per poi tornare ad occupare le loro posizioni una volta che il bombardamento fu terminato. Quando i russi tornarono all’attacco, il giorno successivo, si trovarono davanti un dispositivo difensivo di tutto rispetto, e nel giro di una mezz’ora il comando russo ordinò di interrompere nuovamente le operazioni. La notte successiva un reparto esplorativo fu inviato ad individuare le posizioni cecene per un attacco d’artiglieria notturno. L’operazione fu un disastro: il reparto esplorante fu intercettato e finì sotto una pioggia di proiettili. 10 degli 11 componenti la squadra furono uccisi, e l’unico sopravvissuto fu fatto prigioniero. Interrogato sulla consistenza delle forze federali di fronte a loro egli riferì che gli attaccanti disponevano ancora di troppe unità perché Kachukhaev potesse capitalizzare il successo con un contrattacco, così il comandante ceceno decise di mantenere un atteggiamento difensivo, preferendo impegnare gli uomini nella ricostruzione delle trincee e nell’approntamento di nuovi sbarramenti.

“Я БЛАГОДАРНА СУДЬБЕ, КОТОРАЯ СВЕЛА МЕНЯ С ЧЕЧЕНЦАМИ!” ФРАНЧЕСКО БЕНЕДЕТТИ БЕРЕТ ИНТЕРВЬЮ У АЛЛЫ ДУДАЕВОЙ

8 marzo 2023 maceriadmin Lascia un commento

Г.Алла Федоровна Дудаева — вдова первого президента Чеченской Республики Ичкерия. Спутница жизни Дудаева, жила с ним до его убийства, которое произошло 21 апреля 1996 года российской армией. Несмотря на русское происхождение, Алла Дудаева связала свою личную судьбу с делом независимости Чечни, продолжая после смерти мужа выступать за свободную Чечню. Среди ее качеств, безусловно, выделяется ее страсть к рисованию. По этой причине, в дополнение к ее словам, мы собрали и опубликовали с ее разрешения ее живописные работы. Далее следует двойная история в словах и образах: история жены, матери, художницы, политической активистки, женщины, связанной с Чечней любовью и судьбой.

Смерть Джохара Дудаева лишила чеченцев не только человеческого, но и политического ориентира. С Вашей точки зрения это может быть даже более верно: изменила ли потеря человека, столь важного для вас как спутницы жизни, как матери его детей, и в то же время как сторонника свободной Чечни, Вашу экзистенциальную точку зрения? вид?

Весь чеченский народ плакал, когда узнал о смерти Джохара, как и весь мусульманский мир. Но не только мусульмане : весь мир оценил жизнь и деятельность Джохара и сопротивление чеченского народа российской агрессии и назвал его именем десятки улиц, площадей и городов в разных странах. Джохар показал, как «брать города» и за 3 дня (7,8,9 марта) столица Ичкерии была взята чеченцами. Российские воинские части и базы были окружены, но чеченцы их не уничтожали, чтобы самолеты не могли бомбить нападавших и мирное население города. Этот гениальный план придумал Джохар, и на вопрос журналистов, он ответил: «Мы показали всему миру, как брать города!» Точно также оккупанты были окружены через три месяца после гибели Джохара, 6 августа 1996 года. И называлось «Умереть, обняв врага». Это произошло только благодаря беспримерному мужеству чеченского народа. Впервые в мире маленький чеченский народ победил огромную Российскую империю зла и насилия, которой десятилетиями боялся весь мир!

И люди называли это чудом! Эта победа дала надежду всем оккупированным народам на их будущее освобождение и вдохнула новые силы в тех, кто покорился и сдался! Нация непобедима, когда она борется на своей земле за свою свободу, если у нее есть такой вождь! Когда президент и народ едины, они непобедимы!

Изменила ли его смерть что-нибудь в вас в отношении заботы о своей семье и в отношении идеи независимой Чечни?

После смерти Джохара во мне ничего не изменилось ни по отношению к нашей семье, ни по отношению к идее независимости Ичкерии. Но мое личное ощущение изменилось, я не представляла себя без Джохара, меня как будто неожиданно ударили в грудь. Ночью нас тайком отвезли в один из домов храброго и мудрого человека Даяна, я просидела у тела Джохара три дня. Даян попросил меня не говорить, что Джохар погиб, когда меня приглашали в их дом поесть. Он просил меня сказать, что со мной есть раненый, но это не Джохар. «Моя жена Лейла, — сказал он, — не сможет этого вынести. У нее слабое сердце. Не надо плакать, начнется общий плач, шум и в деревне сразу все поймут. Мы должны это скрыть. После его слов я поняла, что есть люди, которые любят Джохара не меньше меня, но они слабее здоровьем. И я научилась не плакать, даже когда мое сердце разрывалось от боли. Поэтому, когда нужно было объявить о смерти Джохара 24 апреля перед журналистами всего мира, я сдержала слезы и не плакала, думая о сотнях больных старушках, таких как Лейла. Что с ними будет, когда они услышат эту печальную новость… А, насчет наших врагов, я не хотела, чтобы они радовались смерти Джохара… Вот почему я оставила сомнения врагам Джохара, чтобы боялись, что он может вернуться.

В ту ночь – 24 апреля, когда мы хоронили президента, я была свидетелем таких чудес: – когда Джохара подняли и понесли на кладбище, что мне казалось, появились новые силы. В три часа ночи, когда прибыли на кладбище, было еще темно и страшно. Стояла стена тумана. Пока копали могилу, я сидела рядом с телом Джохара за оградой. А когда за ним пришли и понесли в середину кладбища, вдруг туман рассеялся, показались розово-золотые лучи раннего солнца, под которыми засияло все вокруг. А, в голубом небе над его могилой закружили стаи птиц, и они так пели, словно прилетели его приветствовать или провожать! Казалось, что его встречал сам Всевышний! Я поняла, что Джохара в могиле не будет, его душу сразу заберут в рай!

Когда чеченский народ 6 августа собрал все свои силы и сумел разгромить огромную Российскую империю, многие поверили, что Джохар жив и обязательно вернется. Но наши враги утверждали, что Джохар, символ независимости, сбежал, оставив свой народ. А потом мне пришлось опровергать эти грязные слухи, и мы сняли документальный фильм на месте его гибели. В нем я подробно описала, где он был, когда это произошло и с какой стороны одна за другой полетели две ракеты. Вместе с ним погибли военный прокурор Магомед Жаниев, и наш бывший представитель в Москве – Хамад Курбанов. Их тут же увезли родственники и похоронили на следующий день. Но, многие чеченцы мне не поверили и пришлось написать книгу «Миллион первый», которая стала документальным фильмом о рождении, детстве, жизни и смерти Джохара Дудаева.
Впервые книга была опубликована в Баку в 2002 году. Затем в шести других странах на разных языках. Кстати, сразу после выхода книги в Чечне было смонтировано видео, кто-то говорил моим голосом на фоне моей фотографии. «Я извиняюсь перед чеченским народом, что выхожу замуж. Я долго искала и наконец нашла похожего на Джохара, только усы другие».
Это было сделано намеренно, чтобы моей книге не поверили, а некоторые подумали, что я снова выхожу замуж за Джохара, который на самом деле был якобы ранен, тайно вывезен из Чечни, а затем вылечен. Только спустя много лет чеченский народ окончательно убедился в этом и перестал ждать Джохара. Но, в сердцах народа Джохар жив и будет жить!

После освобождения Грозного в августе Чечня оказалась свободной, но в постоянной опасности. С апреля 1996 года по февраль 1997 года наследство Джохара перешло к Зелимхану Яндарбиеву. Он был старым другом Вашего мужа. Что Вы о нем помните? Что он за человек?

Зелимхан Яндарбиев был поэтом и лидером Вайнахской демократической партии, одним из первопроходцев чеченской независимости и свободы. Он посетил нас в Тарту, Эстония, и пригласил Джохара на первый Конгресс. На нем Джохар произнес такую блестящую речь, что был избран председателем Чеченского народного исполнительного комитета. Зелимхан всегда был рядом с Джохаром и во всем его поддерживал. Он отличался большим мужеством и верностью идее независимости, и поэтому Джохар после ряда неудачных покушений на его жизнь, поручил ему заменить его на посту президента ЧРИ в случае его смерти. О мужестве Зелимхана можно судить по известному видео, на котором он не уступает президенту Ельцину во время мирных переговоров в Кремле. И он настоял, чтобы тот перебрался на отведенное ему место, напротив Зелимхана Яндарбиева. Потому, что война 1994-1996 годов была с российским агрессором, который первым начал войну с независимой Ичкерией. Это не был «внутренний конфликт», о котором вещали российские СМИ. И речь шла не о «наведении конституционного порядка на территории Чеченской Республики Ичкерия», а о полномасштабной войне, в ходе которой столица была разрушена российскими бомбами, а вся чеченская земля была сожжена и заминирована! Зелимхан в 1997 году провел выборы нового президента ЧРИ, хотя мог бы и дальше занимать этот пост, но он хотел, чтобы чеченский народ сам выбрал себе президента. Хотя некоторые не понимали его. Но, он всегда был на стороне закона и демократии.

После выборов 1997 года пост президента республики перешел к Аслану Масхадову. Каково было Ваше мнение о нем? И как изменилось это мнение за время Вашей политической деятельности до второго российского вторжения?

Аслану Масхадову досталась страна, разрушенная русско-чеченской войной, тысячи раненых, десятки тысяч людей без средств к существованию. Джохар Дудаев запретил брать выкуп за пленных русских призывников. Но, сразу после его смерти 21 апреля, уже в мае, олигарх Березовский выкупил из чеченского плена российскую журналистку Елену Масюк, за два миллиона долларов. Ее вернули в США, и друг Ельцина Билл Клинтон торжественно наградил ее массивной золотой цепью, повесив на грудь. Все это было показано по телевидению и положило начало торговле заложниками, проводимой ФСК. Они крали и вывозили заложников из семей богатых бизнесменов на границу ЧРИ и передавали их чеченцам, а затем делили выкуп через посредников, главным из которых был Березовский. Власти ничего не могли поделать с разгулом преступлений российских спецслужб. Они убили 8 человек из Международного Красного Креста, обвинив в этом чеченцев. И отрубили головы трем иностранцам, которые собирались обеспечить республику телефонной связью со всем миром. Чеченцев пытались представить всему миру преступниками и бандитами. В 1999 году по приказу Путина взорвали два дома в Москве и один в Волгодонске, обвинили в этом преступлении чеченцев и начали вторую русско-чеченскую войну. Судьба Аслана Масхадова сложилась трагично, но он с честью выполнил свой долг и погиб в результате длительной партизанской войны. Думаю, ему было проще жить в палатке и воевать в лесу вместе со своими верными товарищами, чем во время президентства. Аслану Масхадову не хватило практичной жесткости после легитимного избрания его в президенты, когда в республику начали затаскивать всякую антирелигиозную, антинародную, античеченскую, античеловечную нечисть… Пытаясь избежать национальный раскол, внутринациональную борьбу за национальные ценности, Масхадов получил то, что получил. Хотя народ просил его, очистить республику от всякой грязи, он не услышал глас народа. И в этом Москва выиграла – ее козни прошли успешно!

Основное обвинение, выдвинутое против Ичкерии в период с 1996 по 1999 год, заключается в том, что она стала исламским государством и отказалась от пути, начатого Конституцией 1992 года и который Джохар намеревался сохранить. Что Вы думаете об этой теме?

Ичкерия за эти годы не стала исламским государством, потому что был президент Аслан Масхадов и парламент. Но, министр иностранных дел, Мовлади Удугов, создал в городе Грозный, так называемый «ваххабитский» двухэтажный центр с охраной и за стеной. К нему приезжали выходцы из Саудовской Аравии, которые представлялись чеченскому народу самыми правильными мусульманами. Они останавливали машины на улицах и проверяли документы, чтобы узнать, путешествуют ли родственники или женщины с незнакомыми мужчинами. Чтобы потом наказывать их плетьми, как и за пьянство. Удугов пытался поставить своих эмиров в каждом селении для создания параллельных систем государственного управления. Сначала в г. Гудермесе, а затем в Урус-Мартане (Урус-Мартан районный город, не был разрушен бомбежками, потому что большинство его жители не принимали участия в сопротивлении российским войскам в первую русско-чеченскую войну). В нем тоже был организован, так называемый, «ваххабитский» центр и привезены хиджабы для женщин. Кроме того, появились небольшие брошюры с выдержками из Корана, изданные в Москве. И в Баку была школа-джамаат, куда принимали наших раненых, учили молиться по-другому, но на войну они не возвращались. Их субсидировала Москва. Но, повторюсь, с 1992 по 1999 год Ичкерия не стала исламским государством и сохранила свою конституцию. Гораздо позже, уже на этапе партизанской войны, в 2002 году, Аслан Масхадов выступил с заявлением, что изменил конституцию, введя исламскую, но только парламент имеет право принимать такие законодательные решения при наличии кворума о внесении изменений в Конституцию. И решается вопрос всенародно на референдуме.

После смерти Масхадова преемником руководства независимой Ичкерии стал Абдул-Халим Садулаев. Он постановил:

«С началом чеченской войны продолжалась работа по составлению проекта Конституции в полном соответствии с нормами ислама, […] А теперь статья 1 Конституции ЧРИ составляет: «Чеченская Республика Ичкерия является суверенным и независимое исламское правовое государство, созданное в результате самоопределения чеченского народа. Источниками всех решений являются Коран и Сунна». Таким образом, мы подошли к логическому завершению правовых реформ, инициированных Джохаром Дудаевым». Считаете ли Вы эти аргументы правильными? Что Вы думаете о Садулаеве?

Действительно, преемником Аслана Масхадова стал Абдул-Халим Сайдулаев, назначенный Масхадовым на случай его смерти. Но, как и Аслан Масхадов, он был в партизанском отряде в лесу и не имел парламента для изменения конституции. Только парламент имеет возможность заниматься законотворческой деятельностью, и только народ имеет право решать такие важные вопросы, как изменение конституции в ходе референдума по этому вопросу. Президент имеет право только подписывать законы, принятые парламентом, или решения народа на референдуме.

Как вы думаете, сможет ли чеченская диаспора в Европе и на Западе в целом повлиять на правительства, чтобы они решительно вмешались в возрождение независимой Чечни? Какие действия, по вашему мнению, должны предпринять его представители?

В настоящее время в Ичкерии находится 160 000 российских военнослужащих. Как только начнутся перемены в России, русские войска, оставшиеся в чужой стране, в окружении чужого народа, потихоньку уйдут сами собой. Так же, как сбегут Кадыров и его подельники, опасаясь мести народа. Наша деятельность, как и все прошедшие годы, проходила в информационной борьбе с теми, кто хочет воспользоваться захватом власти в республике для провозглашения шариата и себя во главе шариата без демократического выбора народа в соответствии с нашей конституцией. Мы – единственная легитимная власть, Президиум и его члены никогда не провозглашали себя незаконными «премьер-министрами» или председателями «кабинета министров». Мы были утверждены последним президентом на своих должностях и продолжили свою работу. И существуем для того, чтобы организовать демократические выборы новых лидеров, которые, несомненно, появятся среди чеченского народа в ходе всех этих событий. Мы должны обеспечить преемственность демократической власти народа. Только народ имеет право избирать президента и другие структуры. За последние годы выросло много образованных молодых чеченцев, которые учились в лучших университетах Европы. Наверняка самые активные из них найдутся и будут готовы на конкурсной основе возглавить не только республику, но и войти в кабинет министров.

Вас, русского происхождения, можно было бы представить, если позволите мне аналогию, деревом с русскими корнями и чеченскими ветвями. Как Вы переживаете отношения между этими двумя идентичностями, даже после всего, что произошло?

Мне очень жаль, что Кремль начал войну на уничтожение такого удивительного народа, как чеченцы. В первую русско-чеченскую войну по приглашению правительства Ичкерии 250 русских матерей приехали в Назрань за пленными сыновьями, разбросанными по республике восемнадцатилетними призывниками, находя их у чеченских командиров. Это вошло в мировую историю, впервые такой маленький народ пожалел пленных огромной армии завоевателей и вернул без всякого выкупа их матерям. Но, сейчас почти все, кто выступал против захватнических войн Российской империи, либо покинули Россию, либо были убиты. Русский народ изменился, его армия превратилась в армию мародеров и бандитов. А, российские генералы забирают даже преступников из тюрем и отправляют воевать в Украину. Да и сама Россия вызывает одинаковые чувства протеста у народов нашего мира. Поэтому все ждут, когда эта последняя империя зла и насилия рухнет, а ее колониальные народы освободятся и наконец станут хозяевами своей земли и судьбы. И я надеюсь, что с помощью западных стран это произойдет гораздо быстрее, чем это могло бы быть с чеченским народом, у которого не хватало оружия для самообороны, большая часть автоматов была в боях захвачена у русских оккупантов. Но, чеченский народ не сдавался и десятилетиями вел сопротивление. Тогда не было и миллиона чеченцев, а сейчас 46 миллионов украинцев, и весь мир помогает им оружием и осуждением агрессии России. Украина обязательно победит.

Во время войны в Чечне западные политики заявляли о невмешательстве во внутренние дела России. Джохар предупреждал, что может наступить время, когда сам Запад станет внутренним делом России. Этот момент настал, его слова сбылись, и они, наконец, проснулись! Сейчас Россия признана Западом террористическим государством, хотя я бы назвала ее террористическим государством в международном масштабе! Потому что помимо захватнических войн она уничтожает всех тех, кто ей противостоял по всему миру: Александра Литвиненко в Лондоне, Зелимхана Яндарбиева в Катаре, многочисленные убийства в Турции, Австрии, Германии, Франции… Российское правительство должно ответить за свои преступления так же, как это было с нацистами Германии во время Нюрнбергского процесса.

Как Вы жили, как мать и жена покойного первого президента, между первой и второй войнами? Я намеренно задаю этот вопрос в очень общем виде. Затем Вы можете говорить о любом аспекте или опыте, который наиболее важен для Вас.

Между войнами я жила, как и большинство чеченцев, верой в то, что войны больше не будет. Люди восстанавливали разрушенные дома, сажали деревья и сады. Жизнь продолжалась. Там были мои дети, и они тоже думали, что все плохое позади. После начала второй войны, когда чеченский народ незаслуженно обвинили во взрыве домов в Москве, все поняли, что эта война станет реваншистской. И это будет местью Москвы за победу чеченского народа в 1996 году. Пришлось покинуть Ичкерию и перебраться в Ингушетию, затем в Грузию, в Баку и, наконец, в Стамбул. Наша семья, как и многие другие чеченцы, была вынуждена покинуть страну. По всей Ичкерии, как грибы, множились русские фильтрационные лагеря, их стало более полусотни. Они были даже в Ставрополе, Минводах, Пятигорске. В них, десятки тысяч чеченцев были замучены и убиты. Некоторые из умирающих или трупы были проданы родственникам для захоронения. Это было ужасное время! За свое желание быть свободным чеченский народ заплатил своей кровью! Но, в душе своей, он всегда оставался непокоренным, ибо испокон веков приветствовал всех, кто входил в его дом, говоря: «будь свободен»! И по сей день это приветствие остается в силе. Я благодарна судьбе за предоставленную мне возможность познакомиться с этим гордым и гуманным народом, его обычаями и традициями. Народ, которым человечество восхищалось бы и брало в пример, если бы лучше знало его! И я благодарю Аллаха за то, что он дал мне возможность стать свидетелем стольких чудес, в которые я бы никогда не поверила, если бы не видела их сама. Чеченский народ сейчас в оккупации, но это временно, у него впереди светлое будущее, и непременно появятся новые имена и новые герои, о которых мы еще ничего не знаем. Ведь ни в одной стране мира нет столько пассионариев, раз как у чеченцев. Героев, готовых отдать жизнь за свободу народа!

“I am grateful to the fate that made me meet the Chechens!” Francesco Benedetti interviews Alla Dudaeva

6 marzo 2023 maceriadmin Lascia un commento

Alla Fyodorovna Dudayeva is the widow of the first President of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. Dudaev’s life partner, she lived with him until his assassination, which occurred on April 21, 1996 by the Russian army. Despite being of Russian origin, Alla Dudaeva linked her personal destiny to the cause of Chechen independence, continuing after her husband’s death to plead the reasons for a free Chechnya. Among her qualities, her passion for drawing certainly stands out. For this reason, in addition to her words, we have collected and published, with her permission, her pictorial works. What follows, therefore, is a double story, in words and images: the story of a wife, a mother, an artist, a political activist, a woman united with Chechnya by love and destiny.

The death of Dzhokhar Dudayev has deprived the Chechens of both a human and a political point of reference. From your point of view, this may be even more true: has the loss of a person so important to you as a life partner, as a mother, and at the same time as a supporter of a free Chechnya, changed your existential point of view?

The entire Chechen people wept when they learned of Dzhokhar’s death, as well as the Muslim world. But not only Muslims: the whole world appreciated Dzhokhar’s life and work, the Chechen people’s resistance to Russian aggression, and dedicated dozens of streets, squares and cities in different countries to him. Dzhokhar showed how to “take cities” and in 3 days (March 7,8,9) the capital of Ichkeria was taken by Chechens. Russian military units and bases were surrounded, but the Chechens did not shoot at the Russians so that the planes could not bomb the attackers. This ingenious plan was conceived by Dzhokhar, and when journalists asked him “why did you leave Grozny?” He replied “We have shown the whole world how to take cities!” In exactly the same way, the invaders were surrounded three months after the death of Dzhokhar on August 6, 1996. It was called: “dying, embracing the enemy.” And it happened only thanks to the unparalleled courage and courage of the Chechen people. For the first time in the world, a small Chechen people defeated the huge Russian empire of evil and violence, which the whole world has been afraid of for decades!

And the people called it a miracle! This victory gave hope to all occupied peoples for their future liberation and breathed new strength into those who bowed and surrendered! A nation is invincible when it fights on its own land for its freedom, if it has such a leader! When the president and the people are one, they are invincible!

Has his death changed anything in you regarding the care of your family and regarding the idea of an independent Chechnya?

After the death of Dzhokhar, nothing has changed in me in relation to our family or in relation to the idea of the independence of Ichkeria. But my personal feeling changed, I could not imagine myself without Dzhokhar, it was as if I was unexpectedly hit in the chest. Then we were secretly taken to the second home of a brave and wise man, Dayan, and I sat by his body for three days. Dayan asked me not to mention that Dzhokhar was dead when I was at her house for dinner. He asked me to say that there was one wounded, but not that it was Dzhokhar. “My wife Leila” he said “She couldn’t bear it. He has a weak heart. No need to mourn it in front of them, there would be such a noise that everyone in the village would understand immediately. Instead we have to hide. After her words, I understood that there were still those who loved Dzhokhar, albeit weaker than me in health. And I learned to hide, even as my heart was torn apart by pain. Therefore, when it was necessary to declare Dzhokhar’s death on April 24 in front of journalists from all over the world, I learned to hide my tears and did not cry, I thought about hundreds of sick old women like Leila, what would happen to them when they heard the sad news. And about our enemies, how they would rejoice at Dzhokhar’s death … That’s why I decided to leave the doubt, to Dzhokhar’s enemies who feared him, that he might return.

That very night we snuck him out and buried him. And I witnessed such miracles, when Dzhokhar was raised and carried to the cemetery, that it seemed to me that I had new strength. We left at three in the morning. When we arrived at the cemetery it was still dark which was scary. There was a wall of fog. While the grave was being dug, I sat next to Dzhokhar’s body, behind the fence. And when they came for him and brought him, suddenly the fog cleared, pink-gold rays of the sun appeared, under which everything around shone. And in the blue sky above his grave, flocks of birds were circling, as if they had come to greet or meet him. And they sang!!! Most likely, the Almighty himself met him! I understood that Dzhokhar would not be in the grave, his soul was immediately taken to heaven!

When the Chechen people gathered all their strength and managed to defeat the huge Russian empire, many believed that Dzhokhar was alive and would certainly return. But our enemies have claimed that Dzhokhar, a symbol of independence, fled, leaving his people behind. And then I had to refute these dirty rumors and we made a documentary about the place of his death. In it, I detailed where he was, when it happened and from which side two rockets came, one after the other. The military prosecutor, Magomed Zhaniev, and our former representative in Moscow, Khamad Kurbanov, they died with him. They were immediately taken away by relatives and buried the next day. But many Chechens still didn’t believe me and so I had to write the book “Million First” which became a documentary about the birth, childhood, life and death of Dzhokhar Dudayev .

It was first published in Baku in 2002. Then in six other countries in different languages. By the way, immediately after the book was published, a video was mounted in Chechnya, someone spoke in my voice against the background of my photograph. “I apologize to the Chechen people, I am getting married. I searched for a long time and finally found someone similar to Dzhokhar, only the mustache is different.” This was done intentionally so that my book would not be believed, and some still think that I again married Dzhokhar, who in reality was allegedly wounded, secretly taken out of Chechnya, and then healed. Only many years later the Chechen people finally convinced themselves and stopped waiting for Dzhokhar.

After the liberation of Grozny in August, Chechnya found itself free, but in constant danger. From April 1996 to February 1997, Dzhokhar’s inheritance passed to Zelimkhan Yandarbiev. He was an old friend of your husband’s. What do you remember about him? What kind of person was he?

Zelimkhan Yandarbiev was a poet and leader of the Vainakh Democratic Party , one of the pioneers of Chechen People’s Freedom. He visited us in Tartu, Estonia and invited Dzhokhar to the first Congress. Dzhokhar made such a brilliant speech that he was elected chairman of the Chechen People’s Executive Committee. Zelimkhan was always next to Dzhokhar and supported him in everything. He was distinguished by great courage and loyalty to the idea of independence, and therefore Dzhokhar, after a series of unsuccessful attempts on his life, instructed him to replace him as president of the CRI in the event of his death. Zelimkhan’s courage can be judged by the famous video in which he did not surrender to President Yeltsin during peace talks in the Kremlin. And he insisted that he move to the place assigned to him, opposite Zelimkhan Yandarbiev. Because the war of 1994-1996 was with the Russian aggressor, who started the war with independent Ichkeria. This was not the “internal conflict” that the Russian media were talking about. And it was not about “restoring constitutional order on the territory of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria”, but about a full-scale war, during which the capital was burned to the ground by Russian bombs, the entire Chechen land was burned and mined ! Zelimkhan in 1997 held the election of a new president of the CRI, although he could have continued to hold office, but he wanted the Chechen people to choose their own president. Although then some blamed him for it. He has always been on the side of legality and democracy.

After the 1997 elections, the post of president of the republic passed to Aslan Maskhadov. What was your opinion of him? And how did this opinion change during your political tenure before the second Russian invasion?

Aslan Maskhadov inherited a country destroyed by the Russian-Chechen war and thousands wounded, tens of thousands of people without means of subsistence. Dzhokhar Dudayev forbade taking a ransom for captured Russians. But, immediately after his death on April 21, already in May, the oligarch Berezovsky bought out the Russian journalist Elena Masyuk from Chechen captivity for two million dollars. They returned her to the United States, and Bill Clinton, a friend of Yeltsin, solemnly awarded her a massive gold chain on her chest. All this was shown on television and marked the beginning of the hostage trade conducted by the FSK. They often took hostages from the families of wealthy businessmen to the border of the CRI and handed them over to the Chechens, and then divided the ransom through intermediaries, the main one being Berezovsky. The authorities could do nothing about the rampant crimes of the Russian special services. They killed 8 people from the International Red Cross, blaming the Chechens. And they cut off the heads of three foreigners who allegedly provided the republic with telephone communications with the whole world. They tried to show the Chechens as criminals and bandits to the whole world. In 1999, on Putin’s orders, they blew up two houses in Moscow and one in Volgodonsk, accused the Chechens of this crime and started the second Russo-Chechen war. The fate of Aslan Maskhadov was tragic, but he honorably fulfilled his duty and died as a result of a long guerrilla war. I think it was easier for him to live in a tent and fight in the forest alongside his faithful comrades than during his presidency.

The main accusation leveled against Ichkeria between 1996 and 1999 is that it became an Islamic state and abandoned the path started by the 1992 Constitution and which Dzhokhar intended to maintain. What do you think about this topic?

Ichkeria hasn’t become an Islamic state over the years because it was ruled by President Aslan Maskhadov and had a parliament, but Foreign Minister Movladi Udugov created a two-story so-called “Wahhabi” center in the city of Grozny with security and behind a wall. People from Saudi Arabia came to him, who presented themselves to the Chechen people as the most correct Muslims. They stopped cars on the street and checked people’s IDs to see if relatives or women were traveling with unfamiliar men. To then punish them with whips, as well as for drunkenness. Udugov tried to install his emirs in each village to create parallel systems of state administration. In Urus-Martan, the only village not destroyed by bombing because its inhabitants did not take part in the resistance to Russian troops in the first Russo-Chechen war, a “Wahhabi” center was organized and hijabs were brought for women. In addition, small booklets with extracts from the Koran were brought, published in Moscow. There was a Jamaat school in Baku, where our wounded were taken in, and they were taught to pray differently, but they didn’t leave to react. They were subsidized by Moscow. But, I repeat, from 1992 to 1999, Ichkeria did not become an Islamic state and retained its constitution. Much later, already during the partisan war phase, in 2002, Aslan Maskhadov made a statement and changed the constitution by introducing an Islamic one, but only the parliament has the right to make such legislative decisions if there is a quorum and the modification of the constitution by all the people during a referendum.

After Maskhadov’s death, Abdul- Khalim Sadulayev became the successor to the leadership of independent Ichkeria. He stated:

“With the beginning of the Second War, work continued on the drafting of the Constitution in full accordance with the norms of Islam, […] And now article 1 of the Constitution of the CRI accounting: “The Chechen Republic of Ichkeria is a sovereign and independent Islamic state of law, created as a result of the self-determination of the Chechen people. The sources of all decisions are the Koran and the Sunnah.” Thus, we have come to the logical conclusion of the legal reforms initiated by Dzhokhar Dudayev . Do you think these arguments are correct? What do you think about Sadulaev ?

Indeed, Abdul- Khalim Saidulaev , appointed by Maskhadov in case of his death, became Aslan Maskhadov’s successor. But, like Aslan Maskhadov, he was a partisan in the forest and did not have a parliament to change the constitution. Only the parliament has the ability to engage in legislative activities, and only the people have the right to decide such important issues as changing the constitution during a referendum on this issue. The president has the right only to sign the laws passed by the parliament or the decisions of the people during a referendum.

Do you think the Chechen diaspora in Europe and the West as a whole will be able to influence governments to intervene decisively in the rebirth of an independent Chechnya? What actions, in your opinion, should be taken by its representatives?

There are now 160,000 Russian troops in Ichkeria. As soon as the changes in Russia begin, the Russian troops left in a foreign country, surrounded by a foreign people, will slowly leave by themselves. Just as Kadyrov and his accomplices will run away, fearing a feud. Our activities, like all past years, took place in the information struggle with those who want to take advantage of the seizure of power in the republic to declare Sharia and themselves at the head of Sharia without the democratic choice of the people in accordance with our constitution. We are the only legitimate authority, the Presidium and its members have never proclaimed themselves illegal “prime ministers” or cabinet presidents. We were approved in our offices by the last president and we have continued our work. And we exist to organize democratic elections for new leaders who will undoubtedly appear among the Chechen people in the course of all these events. We must ensure the continuity of democratic power of the people. Only the people have the right to elect a leader and other structures. In recent years, many educated young Chechens have grown up, who studied at the best universities in Europe. Surely the most active of them will show up and be ready, on a competitive basis, not only to lead the republic, but also the cabinet of ministers.

You, of Russian origin, could be represented, if you will allow me an analogy, as a tree with Russian roots and Chechen branches. How do you experience the relationship between these two identities, even after all that has happened?

I am very sorry that the Kremlin has started a war of annihilation with such an amazing people as the Chechens. In the first Russo-Chechen war, at the invitation of the government of Ichkeria, 250 Russian mothers came to Nazran for their captured sons, eighteen-year-old conscripts scattered throughout the republic, finding and taking their sons away from Chechen commanders. This went down in world history, for the first time such a small nation took pity on an army of conquerors and returned the captives without any ransom to their mothers. But, now, almost everyone who opposed the Russian Empire’s aggressive wars has either left Russia or been killed. The Russian people have changed and their army has turned into an army of looters and bandits. However, Russian generals are now taking criminals out of prisons and sending them to fight in Ukraine. And Russia itself evokes completely different feelings among all the peoples of our world. Therefore, everyone is waiting for this last empire of evil and violence to collapse and for its colonial peoples to free themselves and finally become masters of their own land and destiny. And I hope that with the help of Western countries, this will happen much faster than it could be with the Chechen people, who had almost no weapons to defend themselves, most of the machine guns were stolen from the Russian occupiers themselves. And yet he didn’t give up and led the resistance for decades. There were not even a million Chechens, now there are 46 million Ukrainians, and the whole world helps them with weapons and condemnation of Russia’s aggression.

During the war in Chechnya Western politicians declared non-interference in Russia’s internal affairs. Dzhokhar warned that the time might come when the West itself would become Russia’s internal affair. Lo and behold, this moment has come, his words have come true, and they finally woke up! Now Russia is recognized by the West as a terrorist state, although I would call it a terrorist state on an international scale! Because in addition to wars of conquest, it destroys all those who oppose it around the world: Alexander Litvinenko in London, Zelimkhan Yandarbiev in Qatar, Turkey, Austria, Germany, France… it is difficult to list all those killed by name and name the methods of their murder. The Russian government has to answer for its crimes in the same way as Nazi Germany did when the Nuremberg trials took place. Russia is waiting for Nuremberg 2. And I really hope that we will all witness this momentous event and the Russian Empire will sink into oblivion.

How did you live, as mother and wife of the late first president, between the first and second wars? I deliberately ask this question in a very general way. Then you can talk about whatever aspect or experience is most important to you.

Between the wars I lived, like most Chechens, in the belief that there would be no more war. People have restored destroyed houses, planted trees and gardens. Life went on. My kids were there and they too thought all the bad stuff was over. After the outbreak of the second war, when the Chechen people were undeservedly accused of blowing up houses in Moscow, everyone understood that this war would become revanchist. And Moscow’s revenge for the victory of the Chechen people in 1996. I had to leave Ichkeria and move to Ingushetia, then to Georgia, to Baku and, finally, to Istanbul. Our family, like many other Chechens, was forced into exile. Throughout Ichkeria, like mushrooms, Russian filtration fields multiplied, they became more than fifty. They were even in Stavropol, Minvody , Pyatigorsk . In them, tens of thousands of Chechens were tortured and killed. Some of the dying or corpses were sold to relatives for burial. It was a terrible time! The Chechen people paid for their desire to be free with their blood! But, in his soul, he has always remained unconquered, because from time immemorial he welcomed all those who entered his house saying: “be free”! And to this day this greeting remains in effect. I am grateful to fate for giving me the opportunity to get to know this proud and humane people, their customs and traditions. A people who would be admired and taken as an example by humanity if they knew it! And I thank Allah for giving me the opportunity to witness so many miracles that I would never have believed if I hadn’t seen them myself. The Chechen people are busy now, but this is only temporary, they have a bright future ahead of them, and new names and new heroes will certainly appear, about which we still do not know anything. After all, no country in the world has as many enthusiasts as the Chechens. People ready to give their lives for the freedom of the people!